Grundfos: When ecology is in your work DNA

Rewilding Work with Paul Miller Episode 2: Grundfos: When ecology is in your work DNA

[00:00:24.330] – Paul Miller

Welcome to rewilding work. I’m Paul Miller. Rewilding Work captures stories and examples of how senior leaders and change makers are transforming the world of work in their organizations. We’ll talk to directors of HR, specialists in the future of work, leaders of strategy at places like Adobe, Coca-Cola, Estée Lauder, and Microsoft. And one big reason for launching this series is that if we change the world of work, we change the wider world. I remember talking to one senior leader at Walmart and they said that if they make a decision just to change a light bulb in one of their stores, the total effect of these small environmental changes really adds up year-on-year. Small changes, big impacts. And in this episode, we hear some powerful examples as we get into what ecology could mean in the world of work when it is deeply ingrained in the culture. I talked to Jesper Ambrosius, Director and Head of Environmental Centre of Excellence at Grundfos one of the largest and most significant water pump manufacturers in the world. And before that, Jesper was Director of Sustainability and Circularity at Lego. He lives and works in Denmark, so do subscribe, and like right here, so you get alerted to each new episode. Now let’s hear from Jesper.

[00:01:57.170] – Paul Miller

So, Jesper, great to have you here. I love company origin stories. So let’s go back to 1945. And in Denmark, Poul Due Jensen couldn’t find a pump of sufficient quality to irrigate a local farm. So, as you do, he developed one himself in his basement. And after just five years, he was exporting water pumps internationally. And now Grundfos is the largest water pump manufacturer on the planet, and it believes, quoting from the website, that every drop of water contains infinite possibilities. I love that expression, and that water has the power to change the world. Now, was this mission to use water as what I would call a social and ecological change agent there from the start in 1945? And if not, when did that take off, if you like, inside Grundfos?

[00:03:02.010] – Jesper Ambrosius

Yeah. Thanks so much, Paul, for having me. Yes an interesting story, of course, with Poul Due Jensen and the whole foundation of Grunfos. He said back then, Paul, that the world is full of problems that can be solved in a better way. And I think that engineering mindset, what was propelled him back then and what is still propelling the company, so to say. What we’re trying to do, basically, and as our purpose, it was the purpose back then, and it is still the purpose is to pioneer solutions to the world’s water and climate challenges and improve the quality of life for people. Though that might not have been what he thought about when he wanted to create that pump, that’s effectively what he did. And that’s basically been the mission ever since. So you can argue that the climate challenge has a higher priority now than it maybe did back then, but the general mission is the same. So maybe what we’re trying to do now is a lot of the same things, but maybe prioritizing it differently. But yeah, it’s basically the same as it was back then. So it’s highly motivating to work for, of course, when you have a company that is so rooted in a mission like that.

[00:04:14.370] – Paul Miller

Did he recruit people with a similar kind of outlook and philosophy? Because obviously you could create a water pump company and create a great business, et cetera. But it strikes me that the DNA of your organization has got this commitment, this belief that water can provide beneficial change on our planet. And I’m just trying to understand, because this is the Second World War, is just finishing, it’s an entirely different era. The whole issue of ecology, which is now front and center of everybody’s life and every organization wasn’t and has that remained. Did he retract people who were like him? And what does that feel like?

[00:05:07.090] – Jesper Ambrosius

Yeah, I think that is true. Again, a difference from back then to today, of course, is that it’s a much bigger company with a much wider goal. So to say, given the sheer size of Grundfos being the world’s biggest pump manufacturer and basically believing there’s a possibility in every drop, which is our brand manifesto and we’ll maybe come back to that poll. But I think it’s true what I hear. And of course, I don’t know it in details, but what I hear is that back then he was mostly engaged in solving an issue that he could see a huge potential for, which is really making sure that we move water basically at a high level. So I think those he attracted back then were mostly engineers. It was a highly dense engineer company, it still is, but it was even more back then. But I think, again, there was maybe less than the actual engineering quality. It was more the idea that we want to make a difference and we want to solve issues. And he saw this bigger issue that he could see was not only a Danish issue, but a worldwide issue. So I think that kind of ambition and that being able to actually see also across the borders and see that a worldwide scape is something that is still driving the company.

[00:06:31.310] – Jesper Ambrosius

So I think a lot of what happened back then when new companies were created, they were very local and very local oriented. I think Paul from the beginning was very global in his mindset and quickly he began exploring the pumps and quickly Grundfos became actually a global company and has been a global company for many years and I think it was in the 70s then they also created a foundation actually to help improve life of people as well. So I think it’s been there from the beginning with Paul as well. But I think back then, maybe without knowing detail, it started out as an issue that he could see a huge potential for solving and he could see it on a much wider scale than just Denmark.

[00:07:17.730] – Paul Miller

Yeah and I think it’s fascinating because obviously every organization, every workplace has been having to reexamine its relationship with the environment and obviously, at the worst case scenario, you end up with greenwashing. But in a way, Grundfos is like the opposite of greenwashing. So I think what’s interesting about this story and why I wanted to have you on today is really what can companies learn from the culture that was really there from the beginning? And it strikes me that the relationship that Grundfos has with nature is way beyond carbon reduction and net zero. And I wonder how you would describe that relationship and how does it affect the work culture? And I know you’ve only been at Grundfos for a few months, so obviously you probably haven’t picked it all up and ingested it fully, but how does the culture at Grundfos feel through this ecological social change mindset?

[00:08:26.450] – Jesper Ambrosius

Sure. No, it’s a great question. And maybe let me start with to read something out loud for you, Paul, if that’s okay. We’ve actually just released a new brand manifesto, like, a month into my stint, so that was neatly timing for me. So let me just read that out and then I can elaborate afterwards. So, basically we’re saying that life cannot exist without it. It is at once invisible and immensely powerful. It moves mountains, shapes, valleys and defined borders. And it is at the heart of everything we do. Grundfos has always been driving or been driven by water to defy gravity with our first pump, to create efficiency and to save energy and to help sustain humanity everywhere. So every day we go to work with an optimistic, can do spirit on a mission to protect, respect and advance. It driven by the power it contains and the future it can shape, Grundfos – possibility in every drop. So that was basically what came out a couple of months ago, and I think it describes it well, Paul, because this idea of possibility in every drop, it speaks to more than pumps, of course. It’s also about how we treat water, meaning how we clean it, basically.

[00:09:42.810] – Jesper Ambrosius

It’s about how we distribute water, especially in poor areas. And I think that shows, I think, like any other company, we need to prioritize among these these topics because they’re so huge and widescale, but we do prioritize them highly. And I think one way I’ve seen it already is actually that. So now I work with environmental sustainability, which is, of course, one area of sustainability. There are many different areas of sustainability. We can come back to that. But the environment piece, of course, is hugely important. But what I’m seeing is actually so many people reaching out to me in going first with all kinds of initiatives, ideas, projects, everything happening. So not in Silos, but basically because people are so passionate about this, they want real change. So they’re doing all, I mean, spending the free time in small projects and then showcasing it to me and trying to make me see the potential as well and maybe help them advance that project or initiative or whatever it is. That’s super clear to me at least, that’s so rooted in the organization, in the culture, that we’re here to solve issues and we’re here to impact the climate in a positive way.

[00:11:02.360] – Paul Miller

So I’d love to hear one of those examples which things somebody’s come to you with and you went,wow.

[00:11:09.350] – Jesper Ambrosius

Yeah, no, actually. So just last week someone had looked at an opportunity where because we take pumps back also. So let’s say we sell 100 pumps or whatever to a customer, then some of these pumps might not be be right or might not actually fit or whatever that might be wrong. So we can take these pumps back. What sometimes happens is that we don’t reuse these pumps in an effective way. And very specifically, this guy had come up with an idea that we can actually reuse the motors from some pumps that we might not sell anymore. But the motors are actually generic, so you could reuse them for other models. We’re not doing that for different reasons. Everything from financial reasons to logistic reasons. But he was actually estimating that we could reuse 3500 motors in other pumps without extra cost instead of us actually having to use virgin material and create new motors. That’s just such a great example of where we can actually do good from an environmental perspective, but we would also save money. That’s just one example. So this guy coming out of nowhere and then showcasing that to me. So I think that’s amazing. He’d done it himself.

[00:12:30.430] – Paul Miller

Absolutely. And one of the reasons and why I love this story of Grundfos as I started to understand it and talking to you today, is that I’m convinced of one of the reasons for launching Rewilding Work is that work has capacity to change the world for the better. So many people are in work and so many organizations can make really profound impacts on the way we live collectively. And what I love about companies, organizations is they get stuff done. They don’t just come up with an idea. They go, okay, we can create a circular economy around this, we can make that change. So I know you use an index to measure sustainability and I know that’s obviously a big issue for a lot of people and it links back to planetary health. Do tell me a little bit about your index.

[00:13:26.370] – Jesper Ambrosius

Yes, sure. So that’s an index that we’ve created that relates to sustainability index. And it mainly has three overall topics. So one would be the workplace and the wellbeing of those who work in Grundfos. The other is in environmental. And the last one is then water. So it’s sustainability within those three topics you could say obviously the environmental piece is the biggest one and of course also super important for us as a company and for what we do. But I think it’s interesting, right, that we also think about work as that should be sustainable as well. So it’s not only about, you say, the physical working conditions we have on our many plants, of course, where it can be dangerous, of course because of big machines and so on and so forth is a big manufacturing company but also actually the mental wellbeing of colleagues. So we do measure that actually and we do take it very seriously. So that’s another way of being sustainable, right? It’s fine that we have it’s very important, of course we have the mission and the ambition that we do have but if people do not feel good about the work or are stressed or whatever it is, then that’s not sustainable either.

[00:14:49.540] – Jesper Ambrosius

So we’re trying to measure sustainable sustainability, say in the broadest possible way. And I think that’s this index, of course it’s a proxy for it, but I think it actually measures that reasonably well.

[00:15:07.650] – Paul Miller

And one of the things I know that Grundfos is doing, and I’ve heard this from Microsoft as well, is that the further you can get into your supply chain to your suppliers, to your customers and change their practices, the more you can scale and leverage the change. How have you as a company been doing that? Because obviously it’s a very complicated area but when you start to think about Microsoft or Grundfos as a connected network, all the networks start to connect. So I’m really interested to hear how’s that going and what progress you’ve made.

[00:15:46.750] – Jesper Ambrosius

Yeah, that’s completely true Paul. That is where you can say the biggest impact is and we can also see that when we do our estimates of that, of course what we call scope three. So basically activities outside of our direct influence, so to say, both upstream and downstream. I think there are a couple of different answers to this. One is that first and foremost I think it’s important also for strategic reasons and for being a role model, that companies that do have great scope three targets that they actually do their own piece well before, so to say we begin lecturing other companies how to do it. So it’s very important for us to have our scope one and two in place and be a front runner there. Then it’s easier for us to actually also go out and educate our vendors. And you’re right, we have extremely many vendors and many companies have that. I mean we have thousands. And what we’re actually trying to do there very specifically is we’re trying to group some of these vendors in different groups, depending on how mature they are on their sustainability journey, environmental sustainability journey, and also, of course, how important they are to us, what is our relation with them, how frequently do we interact and so on and so forth.

[00:17:07.370] – Jesper Ambrosius

When we then have that we have those groups, then it’s easier for us to actually go out and connect with them and establish the right kind of you could say connect in terms of helping them, lowering their impact as well their energy and CO2 targets. So we’re trying to help them, but in different ways depending on how these groups come about. So that’s one way we do it. And I think that has huge promise because there are so many vendors and you can’t have a one size fits all approach, I believe, but as you say, it’s such a huge area, so you need to do it in a structured way. But I also think we need to say that as well as we need to have these scale effects. I also think it’s important that we actually do showcase impact, that we do show. It can be done. It doesn’t have to be big projects, it can be small pilot projects. It’s one of the things that my team does really well. It’s actually creating small projects where we can show see, we can actually do this, we can actually take this back and we can reuse it or we can remanufacture it or we could whatever we do with it.

[00:18:27.250] – Jesper Ambrosius

So that is important as well, show impact and then scale as part of it. But also we can’t forget that also the small piece of actually showcasing that it works is an important driver of change.

[00:18:41.670] – Paul Miller

Absolutely. That’s great. And I know you had a role in this area at Lego in your previous company and I know you’ve got quite young children and are they very disappointed that you don’t work for Lego anymore and now you’ve joined a water pump company, not quite so exciting to the kids.

[00:19:04.670] – Jesper Ambrosius

No, exactly. Luckily we still have our attic full of Lego, so I’ve not run out dry just yet. But it is true, there’s of course a difference there. I mean, Lego is a much bigger consumer brand so there’s of course that difference there, but there are also many other differences.

[00:19:26.530] – Paul Miller

And just on that, and this is the last question I just wanted to ask you. What’s the kind of main cultural difference between Lego and Grundfos? Obviously, as you say, completely different companies, but each company feels different. I know that.

[00:19:42.250] – Jesper Ambrosius

Yeah, no, but actually you’re right, there are difference. But let me just start with maybe one similarity poll and that is that it’s both Lego and Grundfos is family owned companies and they’re both partly owned by a foundation as well. So there are quite a lot of in terms of how I believe that privately owned companies tend to focus more on the long term, less on the next quarter because we don’t really have to worry about stakeholders. So I think that’s a key similarity there that is important to, and one of the reasons why I find both interesting, both companies very interesting. But of course, you could say Lego has a very different purpose than Grundfos. So their purpose is really learning through play. That’s what they promote. I find that extremely valuable as well in our world today. But of course, where Grundfos is more rooted in enormous sustainability, Lego is rooted in this learning through play way of thinking. So two different purposes, very, very important. Both. But you could argue that environmental sustainability is more of an add on to Lego’s purpose than really what is rooted in the company. So that’s one difference.

[00:20:58.580] – Jesper Ambrosius

And I think as someone working within environmental sustainability, it’s quite nice that Gundfos has that as a kind of building the purpose from the 40s when Poul Due Jensen established a company. Then I think another difference is that Grundfos is very engineer driven. I think the company is on a learning journey also to figure out how much do we design for perfection and how much do we kind of learn along the way and how much do we do we build and change and build and change. And I think maybe that’s more root into the Lego design thinking. I think Grundfos is also working on that and getting there. But both companies has a lot of experimentation going on, which is interesting, but they do it in a bit of a different ways. And then, of course, as I said earlier, also, Lego is a big consumer brand. I think a big part of how Lego influences around the world is via social media because people know the brand. We don’t as end users, we don’t actually know. I guess most of us don’t know what name actually is on the pump we have in our houses.

[00:22:13.050] – Jesper Ambrosius

So I think Grundfos more from the beginning has had to influence also by our organizations and by our politicians and so on. Lego has just recently began actually being more political than Grundfos. So different ways of trying to influence the public.

[00:22:32.670] – Paul Miller

Well, I mean, I really admire what you’ve done with your career. Jesper. We’ve known each other for a little while. You started off in a workplace role at Lego, moved into sustainability, environmental, and I love the way that your purpose in life has become your purpose in work. And it sounds to me like you’ve found your home. Would that be right?

[00:22:56.350] – Jesper Ambrosius

Exactly, Paul. I mean, you’re right. I’ve been working within strategy and leadership for the last ten years in many different places, especially in different parts of the organization, in Lego in particular, of course. But my last stint within sustainability and environmental sustainability, that was what really caught my like, this is where I belong, this is where I want to want to be at in the next 10, 15, 20 years. So there’s definitely now an intersection between my passion and purpose of life and then also the workplace. So yeah, I’m super happy about it.

[00:23:36.890] – Paul Miller

Well, yes, but thank you so much for sharing your story, the story of your organization and what you’re doing and it’s been great to have you on.

[00:23:45.510] – Jesper Ambrosius

My pleasure Paul.

[00:23:52.330] – Paul Miller

I’m now delighted to be joined in the studio by Alessia Falsarone. Alessia is the Executive Director and responsible for sustainability and circular economy at the University of Chicago and author of bestseller The Impact Challenge. Also being joined by Henning Drager. Henning is the Senior Global Sustainability Director at tax advisory and audit firm BDO International. Great to have you both here. Alessia, can I just start by asking you for your reactions on what Jesper Ambrosius from Grundfos shared with me?

[00:24:30.310] – Alessia Falsarone

Well for me Paul was really interesting to hear that he had actually just recently joined the company and yet he was put in charge of a center of Excellence for Environmental Sustainability at a company that has also just announced a new promise. And that promise as you also pointed out I felt it goes way beyond their paying customers. And so hearing Jesper really look at not just the needs of environmentally focused innovation, but also the need of the entire enterprise culture to move in a way and grow from the quality of engineering, the quality of product design into understanding. What does it mean doing relentless innovation when you’re touching the life of people was actually quite a bold vision. Especially again when seen through the eyes of somebody so new to the organization. So I caught in him really this idea of a culture of experimentation and almost that the center of excellence for environmental sustainability would actually bring that experimentation as part not just of the customer’s relationship but also the way they distribute their products was really interesting. I had to pause and reflect on that because when you are a company like Grundfos with such a history as you also pointed out, why would you change anything, right?

[00:25:58.180] – Alessia Falsarone

Why would you even consider to moving away from what has been paying off quite well for you even globally? So that was the aspect that I really appreciated the most. And also the idea that there is a communication within the organization that is quite different when you’re handling manufactured good versus when you’re seeing that good as reflective of the impact that it has when it leaves your own plans and it goes in the hands of your customers. That was quite interesting I found.

[00:26:34.930] – Paul Miller

Yeah Grundfos is a really unusual organization because on the one hand you think water pump manufacturer that doesn’t really well, I don’t know what the word is it’s quite a functional organization but it felt like yes but was creating quite a different story around the organization. What struck you about that?

[00:27:02.870] – Henning Drager

Well, first of all I have to declare as a Danish citizen that Groundfos’s mainstay and I have known even before I joined the sustainability movement for many many years what they have been doing. And I would consider them most certainly at the top echelon of progressive, openly communicating companies. So really proud that they get more of a platform because they’re not listed, unlike maybe a Novo Nordisk. So it’s fantastic to hear them. So two things struck me. First of all, the new brand promise or set of values around there’s opportunity in every drop. When yes but talked about the original founder’s idea, where they really want to focus on a limited natural resource and what kind of impact that can make across many, many industries and that none of these crops should be wasted, they should be seen as an opportunity. I felt almost like a generational arc had been made and I’m sure the founder wasn’t aware of it between what he originally wanted to do and what Jesper talked about when he said the circular economy hits us in two ways. One ideas like Alessia was saying earlier, being invited to brought in, I think the removal of existing motors from non existing pumps being included and thus saving energy, time, money and processes and to the entire innovation arc that has also been if it’s driven by engineers.

[00:28:31.650] – Henning Drager

And yet they allow Jesper, and other people like their Chief Sustainability Officer, who was also interviewed earlier this year on another podcast. We’re saying that this signal, this ripple effect across the organization goes inwards and out. And the innovation ability to create new pumps should always go hand in hand with their ability to innovate in terms of sustainability of the product, the retake program to put existing resources into it that makes Grundfos a very visionary not perfect, but a very visionary company that really has thought through all the processes in the entire chain. And they probably also know that sustainability, it’s a never ending journey, but they’re willing to systematize it and walk those steps. And that should be applauded.

[00:29:25.420] – Paul Miller

Yeah. And Alessia, I suppose what I’m trying to work out is Grundfos an outlier exception. They have a founder who creates the company just after the Second World War and for some reason had the vision that the sustainability ecology was in its DNA. And I’m thinking about the organizations who don’t have that. How do they learn from Grundfos and their story? How do you deal with it when it isn’t in your DNA?

[00:30:00.990] – Alessia Falsarone

This is a really important aspect. I agree with you, Paul, especially because what I hear in my day to day is smaller enterprises that are not listed, that are not public, that don’t have the year, time or even the pressure or other set of financial stakeholders that come in many times are more resourced considering internal capital, people, technology than other organizations that are not. And in the case of Grundfos, we actually hear a very different message. We hear that actually there is, as was pointing out, right, a reflection of this feedback that goes right from the customers and the communities they touch inwards and obviously takes over on the engineering part and asks them to be more experimenting with change and with ideas that makes both economic and environmental sense. So when I think about as you were pointing out an ecology sort of feature as DNA now it’s almost water for them has become a design feature. What can you do with water? It’s interesting because I always been thinking okay, but what differentiates the companies that actually don’t have all this external pressure? What differentiates them in their ability to actually do a lot more with less?

[00:31:25.050] – Alessia Falsarone

Right? And I actually really believe that is that diversity of thoughts that comes across functionally in particular as we are also seeing that there’s no such thing as circular economy without diversity, without inclusion, without actually hearing the communities that you serve. And as I was saying before, this idea that I heard from Jesper of the promise and the end line of their manifesto really going through beyond their customers now maybe again I’m biased, I sit in New York and so think about all the background associated with what ecology is, with what environmental is. There is a continuous I go day after day with sort of reeducation even on basic terminology. And then you have companies that actually don’t go beyond saying that they will deliver value but to their customers, customer focus, customer centric. And here is a company then he says decide to say we have a mission with an ambition. We go way beyond customers will be served as we have always done for over a century but we will do it thinking about what water is and what water can bring to them. And so all of a sudden, when Jesper was pointing at this feedback, I was thinking, wow, what about so many things now we know even you can do with water pumps, like heat pumps, for example.

[00:32:54.310] – Alessia Falsarone

In the US. And very other parts of developed economies, where you have a lot of buildings that would need upgrades, now heat pumps are becoming extremely important. And now you have somebody that produces water pumps and does it with a level of excellence that can all of a sudden become the enabler of many other changes.

[00:33:15.940] – Paul Miller

Yeah and Henning, what strikes me is that. I think Grundfos is not an outlier example but actually a kind of leading indicator. And actually once you start to look at your products or services as a scarce resource, as a resource maybe as a resource that needs to be protected, managed properly, you could apply that same principle they’ve applied it to water even though they’re a pump manufacturer. You could apply that same philosophy if you like, couldn’t you? In service organizations or any product.

[00:33:59.210] – Henning Drager

Absolutely. I want to come back to what Alessia said around what founders or if you are listed company with a huge shareholding of the original founder or the founder family. It’s very interesting to see a lot of research coming out that those private organizations or listed company with big family shareholdings, they actually financially, in the medium to long term do better than a fully listed companies or a private company owned by, let’s say, private equity. That’s very interesting. We are studying that, looking at what are the attributes of these founders and their employees and management teams and boards to be able to look at how they create value for their stakeholders. And there must be something in the water, I was just about to say at Grundfos that really makes this connection between what was it originally set up to do? The pump didn’t exist to service the irrigation needs, I believe to now and Alessia, great arch here, to the heat pumps and other forms of pumps. How do you evolve your sustainability through the limited resources you have? But if you really track what kind of needs do they serve and what impacts do they have?

[00:35:20.970] – Henning Drager

A bit like when people are saying we are sustainable now. Yeah, but are you tracking the sustainable impacts of your investments, of your products and your services? That’s called impact investing or sustainable tracking of your impacts. And many or most of the companies I look at do really not do that. It’s more of a one off quarter by quarter if you are listed in the Anglo American world or like Grundfos and much more, probably sustainability for them will be we are going to be around in 100 years and we’ll have products that are relevant. We’ll have the right mix of people who are doing it. But still with the founder’s spirit probably anchored within. And that’s what makes me so excited about the innovation ability of companies which are not dictated to by lots of shareholders or a few anchor shareholders.

[00:36:12.250] – Paul Miller

Yeah and Alessia, I love the manifesto that Jesper was talking about the possibility in every job and I’m just kind of wondering how you feel that could be adopted across more organizations, perhaps not ones that are private, but ones that are in the public.

[00:36:38.350] – Alessia Falsarone

It’s interesting, right when I was hearing Jesper read aloud the end line, I felt like I had to go back and dig the poem by someone Taylor Coleridge, the one that says water, water everywhere nor any drop to drink. Because technically when we are looking at what we think of water or other natural resources, we think right away they are finite. And so in general, especially in developed markets, right, we have thought of access and affordability. But reality is with access and affordability we don’t really necessarily listen to other needs that may be coming up as a result of the use of water. And I think that’s what Jesper was pointing out when he was talking about the way they distribute water, not just the way they manufacture their products, but the way their products enable better distribution. And all of a sudden it came to me, I don’t know how accurate it is now or how old it is, but there was a statistic by the Water Aid that was pointing out that every two minutes there are children that are younger than age five that actually die because of water contamination. So it is a statistic that is not just dramatic, it points out an issue, but also points to the ability now through research and engineering and that relentless innovation to understand that water pollution in many respects in our developed economies actually is more of a problem than the affordability of water in general.

[00:38:19.900] – Alessia Falsarone

So water is still scarce, but the water that we reuse and when we do any circular economy design, we need to think about other issues. That probably when the founders started. I’m pretty sure when the founders started Grundfos you wouldn’t have had the issue of microplastics right in water. So they may have had lead but not that’s a remarkable consideration. Right.

[00:38:45.340] – Paul Miller

Great, thank you.

[00:38:46.230] – Paul Miller

Well, thank you so much Alessia and thank you so much Henning. It was fantastic to have you in and fantastic to much appreciate everything that you’ve shared today. So here are my three seeds to plant based on what we heard today from Jesper and from our expert pundits Alessia and Henning. Number one, anything is possible no matter your company or product or service, you can make sustainability an inspiring mission and an uplifting opportunity in your organization. It really doesn’t matter what you do as an organization because you can find an environmental and sustainable purpose there. Second seed to plant is that your organization and your people crave environmental change and transformation in their work. So use that energy to your advantage. And the third seed to plant is remember the network effects. What you do not only changes and affects your own organization, but it feeds into supply chains and customer chains, amplifying everybody’s efforts. So please subscribe and like what we’re doing here so that you can get alerted to each new episode as soon as it’s released. Been great to be here and see you next time.