The role of the digital workplace in supporting ESG 

Digital Workplace Impact Episode 138: The role of the digital workplace in supporting ESG 

[00:00:00.000] – Shimrit Janes 

We talk about training AI on data sets, and a lot of the time that also requires individuals who are doing a lot of manual work behind the scenes. I think a lot of this, the social and the environment side, is just becoming really educating ourselves on what happens behind the scenes for AI so that we know what we’re getting involved in and what the upstream effects are to enable us to use the tools in and of themselves. 

[00:00:29.860] – Nancy Goebel 

I have to say it was exciting to put my colleague, Shimrit Janes, back in the hot seat again today to share a first look at a new piece of research that she’s written for DWG members. You may recall that back in January, Shimrit came on this podcast to interview me about my 2024 predictions for the digital workplace. This time, Shimrit’s focus is to take us through The role of the digital workplace in supporting ESG. Both this new research and this podcast are excellent primers on environmental, social, and governance considerations for digital workplace teams. The two really will act as your go-to resource for not only a clear understanding of what ESG is and why this topic is important at this very moment, but also how it relates to the digital workplace. In addition, it shows how the digital workplace strategy can align to wider ESG goals across various stakeholder voices. That is to say, the voice of the process, digital workplace teams, the voice of the business, the leaders of the organization, and the voice of the workforce, your employees and contingent workers at large. We also get into specific examples of practices and approaches to promote ESG enablement via digital workplace transformation. 

[00:02:03.640] – Nancy Goebel 

Join me now in conversation with Shimrit Janes, DWG’s Director of Knowledge. This is your host, Nancy Goebel, DWG’s Chief Executive Officer. And as always, this episode of Digital Workplace Impact is brought to you by Digital Workplace Group. Happy listening. 

[00:02:23.090] – Nancy Goebel 

So, Shimrit, I’m really excited to have you back in the studio once again. I can’t believe how much time has flown by since you were last in studio. And of course, I wanted to bring you back in because you’ve just put together a new piece of research for DWG centered around the role of the digital workplace in supporting ESG. So welcome, welcome back to the studio. 

[00:02:54.660] – Shimrit Janes 

Thank you, Nancy. It’s such a pleasure to be back and for this time, to be the one being interviewed instead of what we had last time, where I was the one interviewing you. So it’s nice to be back in the hot seat. 

[00:03:06.700] – Nancy Goebel 

Well, I’m happy to put you there. And so, of course, I have to start with the origin story. So tell me a little bit about why this report is coming together now and why this topic of ESG considerations? 

[00:03:27.090] – Shimrit Janes 

It’s a great question, and it feels like a good to follow on from our last conversation about the predictions, actually, because we spoke about how one of the predictions for 2023 was around ESG, and it’s one of the two that didn’t make the cut, which then raises the question, why have We’ve done a research report about it. If it didn’t materialize as a priority last year. I think it’s really because we can see in the external environment how important environmental, social, and governance topics are. We can see that Generation Z, as they enter the workplace and millennials, as they start to reach roles of seniority, largely speaking, they’re bringing with them real care around ESG issues. We can start to see that there’s all kinds of backlash going on towards ESG from all quarters, regardless of political affiliation. There are questions going on around the effectiveness of ESG, and we also can see the same conversations around DEI as well. But against that backlash, these questions aren’t going away. We can see with the climate crisis, we can see with justice issues, social inequalities, racial justice, ethical concerns, whether you give it the umbrella term ESG or not, these questions aren’t going away. 

[00:04:57.380] – Shimrit Janes 

I think we see that in our own circles and the conversations we’re having. But other statistics and research backs it up as well. We’ve spoken previously about Edelman and the Edelman Trust Barometer. Every year, they look at what are levels of trust for businesses, for media, and for non-governmental organizations. It was really interesting looking into their research for 2023, where they found that 51% of their survey respondents didn’t just not think that businesses were up for dealing with climate change, but they actively distrusted businesses to do the right thing when it comes to climate change. And the majority also believe they just aren’t doing enough on a variety of societal issues. So in the research paper, we look at this question of trust. To what extent do you trust an organization to do the right thing? And it’s a really interesting question because I think it gets to the heart of why ESG is important. There are a couple of other studies that we found. There was a piece of research done by PwC, for example, where they found that both consumers and employees are much more likely, and I’m talking like 80%, 75%, much more likely to buy from or work for a company that actively stands up for environmental, social, and governance issues. 

[00:06:32.460] – Shimrit Janes 

For us, even if it didn’t make the cut for a prediction that achieved its purpose last year, all the research, all the conversations show that this isn’t going away. For us, when we think about the digital workplace, another study showed that increasingly chief information officers are being tasked with adhering to ESG standards when they buy technology. How can we prepare our digital workplace teams that we work with to not be taken by surprise and to have this primer to really understand what is ESG, how does it relate to the digital workplace, and what role can they play? There was a fascinating study that I found during the research that showed a real relationship between digital transformation and digital leadership how it can play a really key role in ESG management. So this isn’t just a… It’s a nice thing for you to know how to do or to understand as a digital workplace leader. It’s really you can play a key role and a really influential role in helping an organization with their ESG agenda. 

[00:07:50.470] – Nancy Goebel 

I think about it along the lines of the conversation that Paul Miller had with Pamela Maynard as part of the Rewilding Work series. And although this was around the topic of AI, I think it comes back to the idea that either you are the disruptor or you are disrupted when there are organizational priorities, external factors coming into view, whether they’re regulatory or otherwise. And so we know that AI was a big distraction in a lot of ways last year, and it did cause some organizations to pause some of their ESG priorities. We’re seeing a level of bounce back, as you’ve described, as the hype is settling down and people are figuring out how to find their feet around generative AI, the focus on the fundamentals then comes back into view, ESG and otherwise. We have seen a a number of member organizations that are giving this priority, again, afresh. They’re not waiting for the ESG officer to come to them, but rather there’s a level of instigating conversation. And I know one of the things that you do quite insightfully is help people think about audiences. And so in the realm of the digital workplace, we tend to talk about stakeholders along three sets of voices. 

[00:09:32.170] – Nancy Goebel 

There’s the voice of the process, which is the digital workplace team unto itself that cuts across HR, IT, knowledge management teams, business transformation. There’s the voice of the business, which is the set of leaders helping to drive the organizations. And then there’s, of course, the voice of the workforce, which is all of the employees and the contingent workers who sit alongside them. And so as you think about the various ESG considerations, can you help us click down across those three voices to start to really understand how to navigate this space in a thoughtful way? 

[00:10:20.610] – Shimrit Janes 

Yeah, definitely. I love your framing of those three voices as well. Maybe just before I get into that, I can do a really quick rundown of what ESG even means and covers because it’s then helpful to look at how… Because there’s the three verticals and how do they then manifest across each of those three stakeholders. Because what was really interesting was reading around it is I think we know if we say environment, social governance, we have a rough idea of what it means. But I think what I found to be really helpful was to apply, similar to what you’ve just said, is thinking about the relationshi.P What relationships does ESG encompass within the organization and then across it as well? So really taking that systems thinking view where nothing exists in isolation. So the way that we’ve framed the environmental part is really an organization’s relationship with an impact on the environment. It’s sometimes also called the more than human realm. That’s not just today. That’s how it’s going to be having a long-term commitment to how it contributes to making sure the planet is habitable for future generations. We might be looking at… It’s easy to think about carbon and greenhouse gas emissions, but also are we thinking about deforestation, biodiversity, natural resource depletion? 

[00:11:51.340] – Shimrit Janes 

When we think about those three areas that you’ve said, the voice of the process, the voice of the business, the voice of the workforce, which when we really think about the voice of the process and the environment, we talk about the difference between… For a digital workplace team, they can integrate environmental ESG considerations and they can also amplify. In terms of integrating environmental concerns, there’s this idea of green IT. So are teams really thinking through the full cycle of their hardware? Are they really thinking about minimizing the environmental impact of running hardware and digital services? So you mentioned AI, Nancy, and it’s really easy to focus in on what are the ethics, what are the opportunities, what are the guardrails, the governance. But AI has a massive environmental footprint. I’m not sure it’s one that gets spoken about as much. So Google and Microsoft, for example, their water usage since they’ve been rolling out AI solutions has massively increased. There’s resources linked to in the paper, but it’s impacting local communities who are then suffering water shortages as a result. So if we’re thinking about AI and how we use it as a digital workplace, maybe we can’t limit the environment to impact specifically at source, but are we at least considering it and being transparent about it? 

[00:13:20.340] – Shimrit Janes 

Then there are things like sustainable UX. You can run. There’s a methodology to try and reduce the amount of energy required to run sites. Some real basics It’s good content management, and digital workplace teams will love to hear this. Good content management also means you are reducing your environmental impact. So all of those things around having masses of content on your digital workplace that isn’t being fully looked after through its life cycle isn’t only bad for users and findability, it’s also bad for the environment. And there’s a whole host of other areas, like with our hardware, are we thinking through its full life cycle? Are we challenging our vendors to share their environmental impacts? Are we making sure we ourselves are learning continuously about the environmental impacts of digital technologies? And are we really using our digital leadership to advocate for impact as well is a really huge area and is all the ways in which we can start to integrate environmental concerns into that voice of the process and how the digital workplace can integrate environmental concerns. If we then look at social and governance just within that bucket as well, we did a whole research box set on the Inclusive Digital Workplace series. 

[00:14:41.930] – Shimrit Janes 

Social is really about an organization’s relationship with an impact on people and communities across its ecosystem. That might be internally and externally as well. That might take in fair pay for employees. I’m going to say a word that is going to be really familiar. The employee experience falls under that social banner. Things like health and safety and DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion as well. For digital workplace teams, that whole experience of building a strong digital employee experience actually fits really neatly into the social pillar of ESG. You’re not just doing it for the good of the employee. It actually helps an organization’s ESG work as as well. All that work around digital inclusivity, digital inclusion, making sure the digital workplace is accessible, creating inclusive content, trying to minimize techno stress, all of those elements are helping an organization’s social impact as well. There’s a few other areas that we cover in the report, too. Then finally, for the governance side, the relationship that we’re really thinking about is transparency around its relationship and impact on broader societal cohesion and with itself. It’s really asking, what are the guiding values and ethics of the organization? Is there transparency around board diversity and structure, things like regulatory compliance, whistleblower policies, ethical business practices? 

[00:16:28.350] – Shimrit Janes 

That question around the voice of the process and governance. Thankfully, and I hope you’ve seen this as well, the majority of all of our members and clients that we speak with are thinking about and have some level of governance in place. The lesson from ESG is really what level of transparency is there around strategic and operational governance and processes? Are you thinking about data privacy? Are you actively integrating ethical decision making and culture? Are you creating those levers of accountability? So there’s a whole host of ways that across environmental, social and governance, that teams can integrate those considerations into what they’re doing. And then your other two areas that you asked about, so that voice of the business. So how can you get buy in? I think what we have found is it really depends on where the organization is with its own ESG journey. So we can see if an organization is actively prioritizing ESG and they’re saying that this is a commitment of ours, you as a digital workplace practitioner can then piggyback off the back of that to say, if we’re looking at digital transformation, if we’re looking at digital workplace, how can we harness those ESG commitments to then make progress with our digital workplace? 

[00:17:57.140] – Shimrit Janes 

For example, if there’s a huge focus on environmental impact, can you use that to then reduce the amount of content that you have and tie it to those goals? Or if there’s a huge focus on DEI or the social lens, that’s a really good opportunity to then advocate for inclusive content with your content owners. Or if the focus is governance, again, it’s a really good opportunity to then say, We need to make sure our digital workplace is aligned with the ethical and governance approaches the organization is taking. It’s a really nice way of piggyback off of an ESG priority. Where it can then be a bit of a challenge is if the organization isn’t prioritizing ESG, but is maybe focused on digital transformation or cost-cutting or AI. And so what those digital workplace teams can do if they’re trying to get ESG in through the back door is really start to speak the language and priority of the moment where you know the organization is focused and then Trojan horse in things that you know will also have an ESG impact. You know that if the organization is cost-cutting, well, if you can reduce the amount of energy being used by the digital workplace, that means lower bills. 

[00:19:15.910] – Shimrit Janes 

Even though there’s an environmental impact there, you’re speaking the language of the moment. And what’s a priority right now? 

[00:19:25.860] – Nancy Goebel 

I love, Shimrit, that you’ve taken the time to say, how can you create that groundswell effect from the back door? Because sometimes that’s actually the key to getting things done inside of the enterprise. Where the corporate mandate may not yet be there. Why sit and wait to be disrupted, right? 

[00:19:54.960] – Shimrit Janes 

Yeah, exactly. Exactly that. And if you sit around and wait to be given permission to do ESG work, that permission may never come. How can we integrate it by taking what is important for the organization right now and the things that we know are going to be important from an ESG perspective and finding ways of almost being a translator and saying, how can I translate this ESG priority into a business priority so that it can get through? And then the final area you asked is really the voice of the workforce, what steps can they take to foster that culture of awareness? And so this really gets to the amplify section. We spoke about how you can integrate, and then it’s then how can you amplify some ESG work. And across all three, environmental, social, and governance, I was looking back over the paper, and it really boils down to just four things. And it’s storytelling through communications and content. How can you tell the story of what the organization is trying to do through its ESG work? Is there transparency of data and activity? So if it’s collecting environmental data, DEI data, all the rest, can you start to build in dashboards that showcase progress against targets? 

[00:21:19.980] – Shimrit Janes 

Really tell the story through both data and qualitative storytelling as well. Then are there learning materials around each of that might be around DEI, it might be around ethics, it might be around environmental impact. Then the final area was really harnessing the digital workplace to reduce the power gap between leadership and employees across all three of these. How are you harnessing the digital workplace so conversation can take place around environmental, social, and governance action? How are you creating feedback loops to really hear what employees are thinking? The digital workplace is amazing for all four of those things. So as well as integrating it into your own practice, it’s really making sure you’re using the digital workplace as a channel to really amplify those messages as well and to hear back from employees. 

[00:22:17.180] – Nancy Goebel 

Well, that sounds like a very powerful call to action with some very clear guidance across these stakeholder audiences and very helpful way for people to be able to think about not only a change initiative like ESG, but on a wider scale for the digital workplace as a general operating principle. I appreciate I appreciate you going through it along those angles because it really does take a level of clarity, confidence, and competency to do that at that level. And so I I think the other thing we can’t avoid is the AI side of the equation. And it would be really helpful to get a view from you about how you see the potential risks associated with AI adoption in the digital workplace especially from an ethical standpoint, which is core in ESG parlance. 

[00:23:22.620] – Shimrit Janes 

We really can’t escape AI, can we? It’s in every conversation. So this is, again, it’s actually where the framework of ESG, because essentially that’s all it is. It’s a framework. And in the paper, we go into some of the history of ESG and how it’s evolved in the intervening years. But if we take environment, social and governance to help answer that question. We know that for the environment, there’s a massive risk around energy usage when it comes to AI. Are we using a lot more water and energy than we would be otherwise? There’s an environmental risk that needs to be taken into consideration. From a social perspective, we know that there are risks around baking in biases and discrimination into AI, which is more likely to harm marginalized people. There’s loads of research around the impact that that is having. When we’re using and also developing our own AI tools as an organization, as a digital workplace team, are we making sure we are aware of how those biases might come up? And are we starting to make sure we’re mindful of the data sets being used to train AI? And is that bringing in bias as to how it might see the world? 

[00:24:45.560] – Shimrit Janes 

There’s a huge labor impact of training AI, and it’s a hidden labor cost where we talk about training AI on data sets, and a lot of the time that requires individuals who are doing a lot of manual work behind the scenes. I think a lot of this, the social and the environment side, is just becoming really educating ourselves on what happens behind the scenes for AI so that we know what we’re getting involved in and what the upstream effects are to enable us to use the tools in and of themselves. There’s a couple of other social risks, for example, becoming a slightly over reliance on it instead of seeing it as a tool that can be used to augment. But I think then governance, that final pillar, is the one that I think most organizations are focused on right now. I would just encourage listeners to also think about the environmental and social impact of it. With governance, these are the ones that are probably more familiar. We know that AI can hallucinate, which is a beautiful term. I love it as a metaphor, but it can produce incorrect information that it believes is right. 

[00:26:03.390] – Shimrit Janes 

So are we, as users, being mindful to question what it’s giving back to us and not just taking it all as correct every time? So do we know how to interact with it that way. I’ve heard quite a few conversations recently with practitioners who have said they’ve switched on, for example, copilot, and all of a sudden it’s similar to switching on enterprise search. All of this data and information is surfacing where people shouldn’t have permission to see it. There is a massive organizational risk around that. People suddenly getting access and seeing documents and answers related to information they shouldn’t have access to. There’s also that idea of using external AI services for sensitive information. We’re increasingly seeing our members developing internal tools that they know take into consideration and all the data and information is hosted internally. They’re not taking that outside of the organization. And then copyright. We’ve heard some… There’s huge debates going on right now within the entertainment industry and elsewhere around copyright and how some of these tools get used. So again, I think it’s just being mindful as an organization of, yes, the opportunities are huge, especially as a digital assistant, and all of the areas that we’ve spoken about in your predictions, Nancy. 

[00:27:30.080] – Shimrit Janes 

I think it’s also not going so far down the excitement that you forget to think about the risks as well. So having that ESG framework is a really helpful way of thinking about all the different potential risks, not just the governance security ones. 

[00:27:48.480] – Nancy Goebel 

Well, if I ask you about the risks, I’m always going to follow that up by asking about the mitigations. What strategies do you think digital workplace teams can employ in this context around AI readiness and ESG? 

[00:28:11.740] – Shimrit Janes 

Readiness is such a great topic and area to talk Well, so the word that comes to me is guardrails. We know that with creativity, creativity can actually flourish if you give it constraints. What are the constraints that can be put in place, the guardrails that can be put in place to then allow creativity around the use of AI to flourish through that ethical lens that takes all those other areas into consideration. There’s a number of ways of doing that. We know from our own members, there are organizations who have taken the time just to slow down just enough to put the governance in place that has enabled them to then go fast. So really thinking through the governance side of things, how are we helping people understand what they can and can’t do, what the risks are? And there’s a really wonderful example I heard last week from an organization where they’ve designed a whole learning journey for their people. And they’ve graded it Bronze, Silver, Gold to help them understand not just how to use AI within their jobs, but also the why, the when, some of those risk factors that I just mentioned. 

[00:29:31.680] – Shimrit Janes 

It’s built into the learning journey. It really becomes about not just how to put the right prompt in to get the answer that you want when using generative AI, but more about the literacy that’s needed and the dexterity that’s needed. And so they’ve taken the time to really enable their people to get to grips with the whole scope of what it means to use AI, not just how to prompt engineer, which is also important, but how to prompt engineer to get what they need from it, but really helping them have that level of understanding of what AI is so they can then make the most of it and it helps prepare them. And that then mitigates the risks as well further down, because you’re using it from a place of understanding as well. 

[00:30:25.370] – Nancy Goebel 

And I know behind the scenes, when you share strategies like often they’re grounded in real-world examples. And so I’m wondering, are there any best practices, examples that you can sprinkle into the conversation to really help bring this to life for us? 

[00:30:48.990] – Shimrit Janes 

Yes, definitely. So the one RK study that we’ve included is what I’m really excited about. It lives within the social pillar, and it shows the art of the possible if you dream big with this work. We interviewed Capgemini and Digital Unite, who partnered together. Capgemini is obviously a digital transformation organization. Digital Unite is an organization focused on digital inclusion. And so they partnered together. And so for Capgemini, their ESG work is really grounded in understanding where they’re likely to maybe be having a negative impact and then seeking to be part of the solution. So they spoke about, for example, how within the social pillar, they then look at digital inclusion and then look at basic digital skills. So because they do digital transformation work, they are acutely aware that they might be contributing to the digital divide. If you’re so focused on developing digital solutions, who’s being left behind from that? Their ESG work is a way of trying to mitigate the risk that them contributing to that digital divide. So they worked with Digital Unite to help their employees learn about what digital exclusion is and to then volunteer to help people within their own networks train up on just basic digital skills. 

[00:32:21.920] – Shimrit Janes 

And it’s had a massive impact on people’s networks. It’s had a massive impact on relationships. They’re now starting to bring that work out into communities, but they’re also bringing it to their clients. Within their organization, not only are the employees who have gone through that program being able to help people outside of the organization, it’s really impacting the work that the organization is then delivering because they’re taking that new understanding about what digital exclusion is and how it happens, and then folding that into the solutions they’re creating with clients. The impact is just huge, not only for employees, but with clients within the organization. It’s helping digital literacy. It’s helping digital literacy outside of the organization. Their whole approach was a test and learn and iterate. It’s a beautiful story of evolution of starting inside the organization and having questions about digital literacy, which so many of our members are doing is trying to focus on digital literacy and then asking, what if? What if we take this outside the organization? What if we bring it to our clients as well? I think it’s a really powerful story of how a digital workplace team with something that they’re likely already doing around digital literacy can then start to amplify their work and to have more ripple effects. 

[00:33:52.280] – Shimrit Janes 

That’s the case study that we have. It’s a really powerful one. Then we’ve also got little sprinkles of examples from BSD Travel, who have a sustainability group on Viva Engage. That’s a really good example of amplifying the role of sustainability for an organization and letting leaders and lots of people share what they’re doing. Then we have MassMutual, for example, who have integrated accessibility into their digital workplace. So that social pillar is really strong for them. And there’s a couple of other examples throughout as well. 

[00:34:24.530] – Nancy Goebel 

And of course, we want to make sure we can put eyes on the research as as it comes out through our member channels and our wider circles. And it’s nice that you can dangle a few examples as part of amplifying the messaging around this all-important piece of research. I’d be remiss not to cap this discussion off with asking you to take us into an envisioning state from amplification. And so if you had to put your finger on the future intersection of ESG principles or the ESG frameworks and digital workplace technologies, what would you share with us? 

[00:35:21.780] – Shimrit Janes 

That is such a good question. Have I put my speculative fiction hat on? I think really at the moment, we’re in such a a nascent baby phase of thinking about ESG that we’re having to really look at the digital workplace through a magnifying glass to say, Okay, we always have to retrofit it into what we’re doing and to rethink everything to say, What does that mean with an environmental lens, with a governance lens, a social lens? We’re having to question vendors, and there’s so much greenwashing involved. We’re hearing stories every day about people making claims about positive environmental impact and then having to roll that back because actually the impact, there was no impact. It was basically a lie. We really run the risk with doing the same here just for wanting to be seen to be doing the right thing. If I look to the future, I think the hope is this is so integrated into the… It has become such a priority that it’s just built in as second nature. So when we think about how we’re designing our digital environment, minimizing the environmental impact is just part of it. It’s not even a You don’t even have to make the case for it. 

[00:36:47.150] – Shimrit Janes 

It’s such a priority that it’s just part of the design phase. When I think to the future, the intersection is that they are just so woven and so hand in hand that we don’t need a research report telling people how to do it. It’s just become part of the norm in the same way as we just think about a design process or we think about, Okay, we need a strategy. I think that for me, that would be the ideal future state. I could come up with some amazing solarpunk vision of how the environment and digital have become bedfellows. But I think it’s really hoping that we can reach a point where the case doesn’t need to be made because everyone knows it’s essential. In the same way as we talk about the digital workplace as being essential, we’ve reached a point where environmental and social and ethical concerns are also just essential. 

[00:37:46.300] – Nancy Goebel 

Well, like most things, you have to crawl before you can walk and run. But research like this goes a long way in creating reflective learning, prioritization collaboration, amplification, and then ultimately a way to draw upon framing success and what’s needed next. And so the cycle goes within the digital workplace arena. And so we’re essentially at the end of our time together, Shimrit. And so I have to ask you, what have we missed, if anything? 

[00:38:26.490] – Shimrit Janes 

If anything, I think for me, what this really boils down to is how can organizations see themselves as good citizens and how can they think about themselves as good ancestors It almost brings us back to the nature of work, book, and concept. The organization doesn’t exist in its own vacuum and bubble. We can see that the boundaries between an organization and the outside world, not that they really existed anyway, but those perceived boundaries are crumbling. How can an organization and the people within it and the digital workplace team really help to bring the organization into the social environment and the actual nature environment as good citizens? I think asking that question, even if you’re working on something that might seem like it has no relationship to it, like your content strategy, we know that everything is interrelated. If you take that system’s perspective, you can have huge impact through your actions. Just asking that question, how does this contribute to us as good citizens, is really the takeaway, I think. 

[00:39:59.390] – Nancy Goebel 

I could I just can’t help but bridge two thoughts together in this idea that the good citizen of today is the good ancestor of tomorrow. And when you think about the traditions of the Mi’kmaq Indians, they talk about the fact that our legacy can affect seven generations. So think about the power of amplification with that in mind. And that’s the perfect closing note for this conversation. 

[00:40:34.580] – Shimrit Janes 

Exactly that. So thank you so much, Nancy. 

[00:40:37.360] – Nancy Goebel 

Shimrit, it’s always a pleasure to bring you into the studio. You always challenge us to bring our best selves to the digital workplace, whether it’s been through research that you’ve done around change in culture all the way up through and including looking at ESG considerations as part of this conversation, and of course, many other chats in between. And so I just want to thank you for taking the time to challenge our thinking. And look forward to more in the future. 

[00:41:17.470] – Shimrit Janes 

Thank you, Nancy. Me too. 

[00:41:27.040] – Nancy Goebel 

Digital Workplace Impact is brought to you by the Digital Workplace Group. DWG is a strategic partner covering all aspects of the evolving digital workplace industry, not only through membership, but also benchmarking and boutique consulting services. For more information, visit digitalworkplacegroup.com.